Pete: Welcome everybody to today’s Jones webinar. This is a really exciting one — it’s all about that pivot point from manual COI tracking to full automation of the insurance compliance process. My name’s Pete, I’m the head of marketing for Jones, and we’re really lucky to have Kenzie Kier here with us today. Kenzie is Operations Manager and Compliance Director for J. Fisher Construction. Kenzie, do you want to give everyone a quick intro and say hi?

Kenzie: Hi, everyone. As Pete said, my name is Kenzie Kier. I’m Operations Manager and Compliance Director for J. Fisher Construction. I’ve been in the construction industry most of my career — I grew up in the industry — and I’ve been in the space of risk management and risk compliance for about 20 years now. Happy to be here.

Pete: Lots of experience there. And full transparency: J. Fisher is a customer of Jones and Kenzie is a good friend of Jones, so we’re really lucky to have her experience. What we thought would be really useful — and we hear this from a lot of prospects considering automating at least part of their insurance compliance process — is: what is the point at which companies decide, “I can’t keep doing things the way I’ve been doing them”? Whether it’s driven by an event, company growth, someone leaving the company — whatever catalyzes the move to automation. And then, how do you socialize that within the business? How do you build a business case? How do you decide what kind of technology vendor to go for? Kenzie has been through that process, so we thought we’d have her share it in an informal conversation. We’re also going to document a lot of these processes and send them out to everyone attending and registered as a leave-behind. Kenzie, let’s start at the beginning. What was the impetus at Fisher that lit that light to say: we need to start considering automation of insurance compliance?

Kenzie: For us, when I came on to J. Fisher, my job as operations manager was our processes, procedures, and policies. Part of that was going through all of our project management processes. Because I’ve done this for many years, I had a list of processes I needed to verify and check — were they being done, and were they being done the same way across all of our projects? On that list was compliance: risk management, subcontractor insurance. How were we tracking it? Where were we storing it? Who was staying on top of things like expiration dates? Quite honestly, there wasn’t a great process in place at the time. The process that existed was basically: when a subcontractor was submitting a bid or being onboarded as a new vendor, the pre-construction team collected the COI at that time. Only the COI — basically just to say “we have insurance.” The process stopped right there, at COI collection. It wasn’t being looked at again or tracked. It had been loosely designated to our project managers to own, and honestly, they didn’t have the training. They weren’t told what to track. They were under the impression that if they had a COI on file somewhere, that was good. I asked the teams, “What happens when a COI expires?” and they all stared at me like deer in headlights. So I said, okay, first let’s make sure we have updated COIs. As we started going through that, it became clear we did not have the capacity to do this as field teams. Our project managers and project engineers are so busy as it is. They didn’t have the capacity to check COIs on an ongoing basis, or to check for the correct documents. We have subcontracts with insurance requirements our subs have signed and agreed to — but nobody was following up, nobody was tracking. That’s where I came in and said: we have to do something about this. And I quickly noticed we didn’t have the internal capacity or manpower to do it manually.

Pete: Gotcha. So you’ve come into the situation, understood the challenge, the operational capacity — and also that you have folks looking at these insurance documents who aren’t fully trained to do so. There’s a risk element there too. What was your next step?

Kenzie: The next step was, I got with my executive team and said: this is a big risk we have right now. This is a huge risk exposure, because from what I can identify, we do not have updated insurance from most of our subcontractors — or the correct documents. They asked my opinion, and I said: I think our field teams don’t have the capacity to manually track this. I’m talking to PMs, I’m on job sites. And they also aren’t trained properly. If they get a COI from a subcontractor, and the expiration dates look correct and the policy limits look correct — that was where their understanding stopped. And that’s where the risk opened up pretty wide for us. We weren’t tracking additional insureds. We weren’t tracking waivers of subrogation. We weren’t looking at aggregate versus per-project amounts, which is huge. Named insureds were not done correctly on a lot of these COIs. But our teams are trained on how to build a building. That’s their goal — get the building built. They are not trained insurance professionals. When you get into things like privity language, a project manager will say, “I don’t know what that means.” And that language dictates who is actually entitled to the benefits of the insurance policy. If your project owner isn’t named, if the GC isn’t named, and a claim arises — we’re not going to be covered. So my answer was: our teams aren’t trained for this. We need to find a solution with people who are experts in this.

Pete: It’s a story we hear so often — people have their own job to do, and insurance is something they have to do as well, but not necessarily what they want to do or are qualified to do. That creates massive exposure, but it’s easy to keep doing business as usual. So — was it automatically the decision to look for a software solution? You could have outsourced this to another service. What made you think tech was the way to solve it?

Kenzie: Quite honestly, because I’ve done this in the past. In a previous role at a different company, I was the one typing policies into our internal system by hand — letter by letter, number by number. If a subcontractor has four policies — general liability, umbrella, auto, and workers’ comp — that’s four separate policy numbers, four separate amounts, four separate expiration dates. And that’s one subcontractor. I was one of four people doing this manually for all of our subcontractors. As a team we realized we had too many policies to track. If I typed one wrong number, one wrong letter, that policy number wasn’t correct — and I was the one liable. That’s when it broke for us at that company: the human error exposure was too great, we couldn’t keep up, and it was taking so much time we couldn’t do the other parts of our jobs. So we started looking at document collection first — because me reaching out to a subcontractor by email or phone just doesn’t get you very far. The subcontractor says “call my insurance agent,” the agent says “I’ll call you back in a week” — and we had subcontractors on site every day who weren’t compliant. That was very scary. We researched different solutions and tried a couple that really weren’t great. So when I got to J. Fisher, I had been through that. When I said “I feel like we need a tech solution,” my reasoning was: your options are to hire somebody full-time who is trained in insurance and compliance language — a hefty salary, and it needs to be their full job, and I know that because I’ve done it — or to look at a tech solution: bring in a partner whose expertise this is, who already has the system built that we don’t have. But I did have to build a business case for it.

Pete: Was the crux of the business case investing in technology versus hiring a trained professional full-time? Or were there other elements?

Kenzie: There were a few other elements. Sometimes company owners or senior executives don’t really understand the complexity of the insurance. They go: why can’t our teams just do this? Why can’t the project managers do it? So I had to build my analysis starting with what the risk exposure was if we had our project teams try. Number one, it would take time away from everything else they do. Number two, they’re not trained. They don’t have the capacity — and it was getting pushed back. Our turnaround times were seven to ten days just to collect documents. And then: if we can’t put this on our teams, what do we do next? We either hire somebody — full-time salary — or a tech solution that already knows all of this and can integrate with the programs we use, such as Procore. The case had to be built brick by brick.

Pete: And when you started looking at tech providers — what were the main points? What did you want a technology to do for you?

Kenzie: Number one, a solution that would help us gather the documents. That takes so much time — anybody who’s done this can tell you. Sometimes subs don’t know; they don’t speak insurance themselves. They’re HVAC professionals, not insurance professionals. So you end up getting hold of their insurance agent. You’re trying to get not only the COI, but the additional insured endorsement — you need a copy of that physical endorsement, not just the COI saying there is one. You need a copy of the waiver of subrogation. You need the 30-day notice of cancellation. And sometimes they have different carriers for different policies — general liability with one broker, auto with another — and you need both COIs and all the related documents. So requirement number one: somebody who could gather these documents from the subcontractor or the agent, verify we got the correct documents, and store them. Requirement number two: does it integrate with the systems we’re using, such as Procore? Anybody who’s worked with field teams knows: if they have to go from one platform to another, your adoption goes downhill quick. If my project manager needs to quickly check whether a subcontractor is compliant, can they do that in Procore without going into a different system? Requirement number three — my absolute have-to-have: do I feel comfortable that they are verifying the right things? That this system is protecting me? Can I sleep at night knowing that if they’re reviewing this, we’re covered?

Pete: Coming back to the business case — who did you need to influence within the company? A lot of times people understand the operational value, but: do we really want to make the change, pay for technology, implement it — and probably the biggest one, change a process that’s been in place for years. Who did you have to socialize that with?

Kenzie: Several people on the accounting side — CFO, controller, the ones watching our bottom line and our spend. They’re the ones you have to explain the value to: “I know I’m proposing that we spend this money, but let me tell you why I think it’s actually going to save us money.” And on the other side, the president or vice president or owner, who looks at it and says: why can’t the project teams do it? You have to explain why they can’t, and then why it’s so important. That part became explaining: if we had one claim and our subcontractor is not compliant, what could it cost us? What is the actual dollar amount we’re risking by not doing this? The difference between what it costs to have somebody handle it for the year versus our risk exposure — that’s usually when they jump on board real quick and it becomes a no-brainer. And a lot of people don’t realize: as a general contractor, you have your own general liability insurance, and most of our own policies actually require us to have compliant subcontractor insurance — to the point where, if a claim arises and we don’t have the additional insured endorsement on file, the waivers of subrogation, the correct subcontractor insurance — our own general liability policy might not cover that instance. So now the subcontractor’s insurance won’t cover, and ours might not either. Once you explain that to your leadership team, that’s where they start to understand the value and the ROI of a tech system versus hiring another person with a high salary.

Pete: Totally makes sense. So you’ve built the business case, socialized it, identified what you need the technology to do. What was your selection criteria? Did that vary across the market?

Kenzie: It did. And one interesting thing: when you present a cost, it doesn’t matter if it’s 5,000 or 20,000 for the year — you get the same response: “Is there somebody cheaper?” I could have said 75,000, I could have said 10,000 — the response is “can we get it cheaper?” So I gathered a few different solutions and suggested we do a demo with each provider, to show what the cost was and what you got for that cost. Because we can get it cheaper — but it’s not going to be the same service. Cheaper is only going to be document collection and document storage. They are not verifying. With Jones, one of the biggest selling points for me — and for the teams — is that Jones has a guarantee. An insurance guarantee: we give Jones the standards from our subcontracts, they verify the subcontractor’s insurance meets our requirements — and if something happens and they said that subcontractor was compliant and they weren’t, Jones has a guarantee behind that, where their insurance will kick in. “We verified it, we guaranteed it.” That’s what helps me sleep at night — knowing there’s a contingency plan if something goes wrong. Most of the other solutions, if not all of them, didn’t offer that. The other things we noticed: turnaround times in the other solutions aren’t as fast. Some solutions are AI-only models. Some are human-verified only. Here you get the quick AI report when a document is submitted, and then a human verifies on the other end — you have that cross-check. Most others have one or the other, not both, and the turnaround time can’t match it for the value and the cost.

Pete: So let me ask you this — and it doesn’t need to be a Jones-specific conversation at all. You moved to a solution that brought technology into the picture, and there were elements of the business case you built to sell it internally. Did it actually work out? Did those things materialize?

Kenzie: They did, yes. It’s really been interesting — I’ve actually produced some research around this. When we started automating and uploaded all of our documents to check compliance, we were at 0% compliant. We are now, in less than 12 months, at 76%. We still have work to do — you’re always going to have the harder ones, and some expire while you’re collecting new COIs, so it’s a rolling number. But going from 0% to 76% in less than a year was huge for us.

Pete: Absolutely amazing. And the other elements — the operational efficiency, all that chasing, sleeping better at night because of the risk mitigation. How is life now, on the other side of implementation?

Kenzie: In the role I have, I pull a report once a week and say to my project managers: these are the people from my dashboard report on your project who are not compliant right now — can you help me reach out to them? It’s very easy for them to look at that report. It gives contact information; they can see exactly who it is and why they’re not compliant. So it’s easier for me, and easier for my project teams — and they’re usually the ones with the relationship with the subcontractors. But to get my field teams on board, it needed to be easy and seamlessly integrated into their current workflow. That’s what this allowed us to do. Because it integrates with Procore: sometimes accounting will call a project manager — we’ve done pay apps, it’s month four, we’re ready to send out checks — “I’ve got a check for this subcontractor, are they insurance compliant?” Because that’s a condition of our subcontract: they have to be compliant on insurance for us to release checks. The project manager can look really quickly in Procore — the system they’re already working in — click a button, and check. That was huge for our teams. And now I know it’s being done the same way across teams and across projects.

Pete: And how have the subcontractors received it? There’s a different interaction for them now too. It must have been a little awkward at first — it was a change for them, and that relationship is really important.

Kenzie: It was interesting. It took a little training on my part. I built a training document that I sent to all of our subcontractors explaining exactly what the change was and what would happen going forward. With our Jones integration, we have a compliance email address at J. Fisher Construction that integrates with the Jones system. The document tells subs: this is the email address you’ll be getting emails from; you just click the button in the email and it takes you right into the portal. They don’t have to log into something different. It needed to be easy for them, just like it needed to be easy for our project managers, or they weren’t going to do it. Once they saw how easy the process was — click a button, send in the documents — they got on board pretty quickly. It did take explaining why it was going to be better for them too. When you handle COIs through email chains, you lose things. Now they can see exactly what they’re missing and what we still need — very clear, very spelled out, no digging through a long email chain twelve responses deep. Once we had a couple of months of doing it this way, they jumped right in.

Pete: At the end of the day it helps them too — they know they’re compliant.

Kenzie: They know they’re compliant, they know they’re going to get paid, and they know they have site access — because that’s also a condition. A lot of times, if you are not compliant on your insurance, our superintendents won’t let you on site — because the liability comes back to us. And if you have to deny site access to one of your key subcontractors, now your schedule is pushed, your other trades are pushed — it has a downstream effect. So for our subcontractors: you’re protected as well, and there will be no interruptions in your timeline or your payment process. Once the process and the reasons are explained, they usually have no problem with it.

Pete: And what was the onboarding process like? We talked about that reticence to change — how disruptive is it bringing in technology?

Kenzie: For our internal teams, it was actually very easy. Getting our project managers onboarded was fairly simple — we built a training, did some small group sessions, got their logins set up, got them into the system. Getting the subcontractors onboarded is a little rockier of a road. We sent the email from our compliance address — “this is what we need you to do” — and it requires some follow-up, some phone calls. It’s not hard, necessarily; it’s getting somebody who says “we’ve never done it this way” to hear: I know, but let me tell you why this is going to be better. Some contractors are, for lack of a better term, a one-man band — doing all the office work and out with their crews. Those are the ones I really tried to help as much as I could — sometimes I’d get on a Zoom call, screen-share, and walk them through it. That helped a lot.

Pete: Great. I’m going to wrap up with one final question, because there are probably several people on the line who are at the point you were at — “something has to change.” What would be your recommendation for someone at that point, speaking as someone who’s been through it?

Kenzie: My advice: first, look at what it’s costing you in terms of time and potential risk exposure. If this is a time burden for your teams — or for you, if you’re the one doing it — and you’re carrying that responsibility and liability yourself, it’s a lot to take. If you’re feeling any of those things: look around. Do your homework, do your research. Do demos with different software solutions, really read what they have to offer. And start with a checklist of what’s most important to you. I had my three items. Maybe verification is your number one. Maybe it’s cost. Maybe it’s document tracking. Start with your most important things, research different solutions, and see where you can answer “yes” on your checklist. And definitely analyze the risk of continuing the way you’ve been doing it. Then, once you decide on a solution — really learn the platform. Take advantage of the trainings they offer. If they’re willing to meet with you and train your teams, take advantage of it. Learn how to archive records, learn how to inactivate employees who leave. Learn the platform — and once you do, it really is a game changer operationally.

Pete: Fantastic. On that note, we’ll close it up. We do have a few questions, but we’re already over time — so I’ll get Kenzie to answer them separately and we’ll include them in the follow-up email, because a lot of them are actually covered in the one-pager. Everyone on the call: we’re going to follow up, leverage a lot of the work Kenzie did in building that business case, and put it into a checklist document we’ll send out to you. Kenzie — thank you so much. I hope this answered a lot of the questions people have when they’re on the fence: should we do this, what are the implications, what do we need to look out for. We really appreciate the work you put in and the time you spent with us today.

Kenzie: Absolutely, thank you for having me. I hope it was helpful — and I’m happy to answer more questions and send them out in the email. If you have questions, send them in. Let’s get them answered.

Pete: Thank you, Kenzie. Thanks everyone for joining, and we’ll see you next time.